The Lucha Libre Thread

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The Lucha Libre Thread

Post by Madzimum Thrill on Fri Jun 23, 2017 11:34 pm

For any kind of Mexican-based wrestling. CMLL is one of my favourite promotions, and I also watch AAA, Lucha Underground, and once in awhile The Crash when they put stuff up on youtube. Not as many English fans watch Lucha as much as they do Japan, so I'll post shows and cards with some nerd-notes and see if anyone gets into it too

June 23rd, 2017 Episode of CMLL Super Viernes:

CMLL notes and primer

Spoiler:

- Super Viernes is the Friday Night show that's the equivalent of WWE Raw, the A show, out of Mexico City every week. It's on Clarosports.com (I think it's geoblocked if you're not in Mexico) but they've started putting replays up on their official youtube channel. Puebla on Mondays is their Smackdown-before-the-brand-split B show out of Puebla, it has an overall lesser feel but there are still some good matches on it from time to time. It's streamed live on youtube on their official channel. Martes de Valores on Tuesdays out of Mexico City would be like if the WWE put on a regular main event and then filled out the rest of the show with younger openers and midcarders and NTX wrestlers, it's to develop younger talent. Also streamed live on youtube on their official channel.
- Luchadors are listed as "Tecnicos" (babyfaces) or "Rudos" (heels). It's not uncommon to see matches between tecnicos or between rudos, and the Mexico City crowd seems to lean towards veterans regardless of affiliation more than adhering to tecnico/rudo lines.
- Every match in CMLL is 2-out-of-3-falls, excepting "Lightning" Matches, 1 fall singles matches with 10 minute time limits.
- "Lucha tag" rules are in effect, meaning you don't have to physically tag your partner in, once someone leaves the ring, their partner can enter and automatically become legal. These are sort of loosely enforced though, there's a lot of double-pins and double submissions that get counted even though they'd be technically illegal.
- Trios matches have "Captains" rules. One wrestler is designated the captain. If you beat the captain, you win the fall, otherwise you have to beat two wrestlers to win a fall. In regular tag matches, you have to pin both wrestlers on a team to score a fall. You don't really have to keep track of who the captain is or not, the ref will let you know if the fall is over by trying to raise the winners hand.
- CMLL is a very traditional promotion, you won't see hardcore matches, gimmick matches, or even steel chairs. Their storylines are mostly told in promos and in-ring like New Japan, you won't see a lot of backstage drama or intricately built storylines.
- Order of importance: Masks > Hair > Titles. Title matches are often used to build up to Hair and Mask matches instead of being the blow-off to a feud.
- There's about 8 million titles promoted by CMLL, of varying weight classes and history. The Trios titles are the most important, the importance of singles titles (even the Heavyweight Title) is based more on who's holding it than any kind of designated top title. I believe the Middleweight or Welterweight titles were traditionally the higher-prestige titles due to more Mexican wrestlers being smaller.
- Titles are only defended a handful of times per year, and you'll see wrestlers hold them for years at a time. Longest reign when this thread originally went up is Negro Casas and Shocker, having held the CMLL Tag Team Titles for 1106 days, just over 3 years. Angel de Oro won the Middleweight Title 90 days previous to this thread going up which would've been the shortest reign under normal circumstances, but the Heavyweight and Light Heavyweight Titles both had to be vacated due to firings/potentially criminal circumstances at the time.
- With so many falls, most wrestlers will win falls using a number of signature moves rather than just a single finisher. It would be as if Roman Reigns won falls with the Superman Punch, the Spear, the Samoan Drop, the Drive-by etc. You'll see wrestlers beaten by much weaker moves here than you would in any other promotion.
- So I don't know everything about Lucha, and I also only tend to watch the last 3 matches on the 5-6 match cards with CMLL. I don't know much about the openers and some midcarders, and I only tend to watch Women's Title matches out of the Women wrestlers, so my nerd-notes on the opening matches are going to be pretty much non-existent
- Removing someone's mask is a disqualification. Also Tombstone Piledrivers aren't used all that often anymore, but they're considered illegal killshots in Mexico, if you see someone lift someone else into a tombstone position and then the referee push them over, to prevent it, that's why. I believe it's also a disqualification to military press your opponent and toss them outside of the ring, but I may be wrong on that one.

Link (from CMLL's official youtube page)
I think they joined the show in-progress of the third match, and there's a few skips during the show so they probably had some technical difficulties, they might upload the full show later.

Faction and Family Notes for this show:

Spoiler:

- Pierroth is the father of Dragon Lee and Rush.
- Rush and Pierroth are members of Los Ingobernables (Naito took this gimmick and is using it in New Japan, Rush is the last remaining original founder from CMLL still remaining in the promotion)
- Angel de Oro and Niebla Roja are brothers.
- Euforia and Gran Guerrero are members of Los Gurerreros Laguneros.
- Cavernario and Negro Casas are members of La Pesta Negra.
- Vangellys is loosely affiliated with TGR, which Rey Bucanero is a member of.

If I were to make suggestions for new people, probably watch the main event first, it's the match most likely to deliver on the card and give you a good taste of what CMLL lucha is all about.

Main Event Trios Match (2 out of 3 Falls)

VOLADOR JR., MARCO CORLEONE Y DIAMANTE AZUL (Tecnicos)
vs
RUSH (Listed as Tecnico but acts as a Rudo), CAVERNARIO Y EUFORIA (Rudos)

Nerd Notes: Volador Jr is the nephew of WCW's La Parka and has made various appearances in New Japan the last few years. Marco Corleone is Mark Jindrak from late 90s/early 2000s WCW/WWF. Diamante Azul won the mask of Rush's father Pierroth earlier in the year, so they have beef. Rush was in last year's NJPW Tag League teaming with Naito. Cavernario was that caveman that you saw doing sweet nunchuck moves with Shinsuke before he came to NXT. Smark note for Euforia, he designs many of CMLL's masks.

Trios Match (2 out of 3 Falls)

ÁNGEL DE ORO®, NIEBLA ROJA® Y DRAGON LEE (Tecnicos)
vs
NEGRO CASAS, REY BUCANERO Y GRAN GUERRERO (Rudos)

Nerd Notes: Negro Casas is the same guy that Chris Jericho mentions in his books and podcasts as this mentor from Mexico. Dragon Lee has made various appearances in Ring of Honor and NJPW over the last few years. Niebla Roja recently turned tecnico and was kicked out of Los Guerreros Laguneros, which Gran Guerrero is a member of.

Lightning Match (One Fall, 10 minute time limit)

VANGELLYS (Rudo)
vs
PIERROTH (Rudo)

Women's Trios Match (2 out of 3 fall match)

ESTRELLITA, MARCELA Y PRINCESA SUGEHIT
vs
DALYS, ZEUXIS Y AMAPOLA

Nerd Notes: I believe Princesa Sugehit was signed for the upcoming WWE Women's Tournament.


Last edited by Madzimum Thrill on Wed Jun 28, 2017 8:18 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: The Lucha Libre Thread

Post by Madzimum Thrill on Sat Jun 24, 2017 8:19 pm

June 24, 2017 AAA Worldwide

Spoiler:

- AAA just has the one show every weekend, Worldwide. They upload it each week on their youtube channel, but for whatever reason either their release schedule is spotty or a few episodes every month are geo-blocked here in Canada for some reason. The owner of AAA also owns Lucha Underground, and a good number of the Mexican cast of Lucha Underground came from AAA, and likewise a good number of the non-Mexican cast of Lucha Underground either did too or have since become AAA stars.
- Wrestler are listed as "Tecnicos" (babyfaces) or "Rudos" (heels). It's not uncommon to see matches between tecnicos or between rudos, and the Mexico City crowd seems to lean towards veterans regardless of affiliation more than adhering to tecnico/rudo lines.
- There is a lot of hardcore wrestling in AAA. It feels very ECW in that I can't always tell if matches are supposed to be hardcore matches or not until they happen.
- The referees in AAA are also faces or heels in their own right. El Hijo del Tirante seems to be the top heel referee, everyone else seems to be a face referee.
- Being a more non-traditional promotion, AAA also has storylines (that I can't follow because I don't speak spanish).
- "Lucha tag" rules are in effect, meaning you don't have to physically tag your partner in, once someone leaves the ring, their partner can enter and automatically become legal. These are sort of loosely enforced though, there's a lot of double-pins and double submissions that get counted even though they'd be technically illegal.
- Order of importance: Masks > Hair > Titles. Title matches are often used to build up to Hair and Mask matches instead of being the blow-off to a feud.
- AAA has more of a traditional western set-up for its titles. The Mega Championship is the top title, with a secondary Latin America title backing it up. There's also a Cruiserweight Title (all three of these titles are currently held by Johnny Mundo from Lucha Underground), a Tag Team Title, a Mixed (aka Intergender) Tag Team Title, of course a Trios title, a Women's Title and a Minis Title (a Mini isn't necessarily a wrestler with dwarfism or a little person, sometimes they're just really short wrestlers)
- You'll also see "Exoticos" in Lucha Libre, men who dress in drag or act effeminate and try to do things like kiss the guys they're wrestling in their matches. Somewhat like Goldust from the WWE used to be, though it's not necessarily homophobic heel antics and it's just as easy for these characters to be big-time beloved babyfaces.
- AAA is probably at the bottom of my list of all the promotions I watch, so I usually only watch the main event and upper midcard acts, usually meaning the only the main event and maybe the second of the three matches on each episode of Worldwide
- Removing someone's mask is a disqualification. Also Tombstone Piledrivers aren't used all that often anymore, but they're considered illegal killshots in Mexico, if you see someone lift someone else into a tombstone position and then the referee push them over, to prevent it, that's why.

Link

Tag Team Match:

El Hijo del Fantasma and Texano Jr vs Dr Wagner Jr and Psycho Clown

Nerd Notes: El Hijo del Fantasma is King Cuerno from Lucha Underground. Texano and Dr Wagner Jr have also appeared in Lucha Underground. Dr Wagner Jr is a Mexican legend (and the son of a Mexican legend), and Psycho Clown is the top babyface of AAA, and they're set to face each other in an historic 2-out-of-3 Falls Mask vs Mask match at AAA's Triplemania in late August this year.

2-vs-3 Handicap Match:
La Parka and Argenis vs (Los OGT) Averno, Chessman and Super Fly

Nerd Note: This is not the WCW La Parka, but a different man who took over the character when La Parka left for WCW. Argenis is the brother of Sin Cara I/Mistico I/Caristico who's currently working in CMLL, and also the winner of this year's prestigious Rey de Reyes (King of Kings) tournament, which is represented by the Sword he's carrying to the ring. Argenis and Super Fly have made appearances in Lucha Underground.

Minis Championship Match:
Dinastia (c) vs Mini Psycho Clown
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Re: The Lucha Libre Thread

Post by Garlic Junior on Mon Jun 26, 2017 3:52 pm

I will be honest, I will not likely find the time to keep up. But please, as with when I started with New Japan, please keep posting this shit. I love reading it. And one weekend I guarantee I will have a whole weekend and do nothing but binge watch the shit out of this thread in like two or three months time....

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Re: The Lucha Libre Thread

Post by Madzimum Thrill on Tue Jun 27, 2017 1:46 am

If you are going to binge-watch, it would probably take too long (even I can't keep up with how much lucha there is), so I would just recommend watching title/mask/hair matches, main events, and maybe I'll bold a few singles matches that are awesome
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Re: The Lucha Libre Thread

Post by Madzimum Thrill on Tue Jun 27, 2017 3:39 am

June 26th, 2017 CMLL Puebla (Offical Link):

CMLL notes and primer

Spoiler:

- Super Viernes is the Friday Night show that's the equivalent of WWE Raw, the A show, out of Mexico City every week. It's on Clarosports.com (I think it's geoblocked if you're not in Mexico) but they've started putting replays up on their official youtube channel. Puebla on Mondays is their Smackdown-before-the-brand-split B show out of Puebla, it has an overall lesser feel but there are still some good matches on it from time to time. It's streamed live on youtube on their official channel. Nuevo Valores on Tuesdays out of Mexico City would be like if the WWE put on a regular main event and then filled out the rest of the show with younger openers and midcarders and NTX wrestlers, it's to develop younger talent. Also streamed live on youtube on their official channel.
- Wrestler are listed as "Tecnicos" (babyfaces) or "Rudos" (heels). It's not uncommon to see matches between tecnicos or between rudos, and the Mexico City crowd seems to lean towards veterans regardless of affiliation more than adhering to tecnico/rudo lines.
- Every match in CMLL is 2-out-of-3-falls, excepting "Lightning" Matches, 1 fall singles matches with 10 minute time limits.
- "Lucha tag" rules are in effect, meaning you don't have to physically tag your partner in, once someone leaves the ring, their partner can enter and automatically become legal. These are sort of loosely enforced though, there's a lot of double-pins and double submissions that get counted even though they'd be technically illegal.
- Trios matches have "Captains" rules. One wrestler is designated the captain. If you beat the captain, you win the fall, otherwise you have to beat two wrestlers to win a fall. In regular tag matches, you have to pin both wrestlers on a team to score a fall. You don't really have to keep track of who the captain is or not, the ref will let you know if the fall is over by trying to raise the winners hand.
- CMLL is a very traditional promotion, you won't see hardcore matches, gimmick matches, or even steel chairs. Their storylines are mostly told in promos and in-ring like New Japan, you won't see a lot of backstage drama or intricately built storylines.
- Order of importance: Masks > Hair > Titles. Title matches are often used to build up to Hair and Mask matches instead of being the blow-off to a feud.
- There's about 8 million titles promoted by CMLL, of varying weight classes and history. The Trios titles are the most important, the importance of singles titles (even the Heavyweight Title) is based more on who's holding it than any kind of designated top title. I think the Middleweight or Welterweight titles were traditionally the higher-prestige titles due to more Mexican wrestlers being smaller.
- Titles are only defended a handful of times per year, and you'll see wrestlers hold them for years at a time. Longest current reign is Negro Casas and Shocker, having held the CMLL Tag Team Titles for 1106 days, just over 3 years. Angel de Oro won the Middleweight Title 90 days ago which would be the shortest reign under normal circumstances, but the Heavyweight and Light Heavyweight Titles both had to be vacated due to firings/potentially criminal circumstances recently.
- With so many falls, most wrestlers will win falls using a number of signature moves rather than just a single finisher. It would be as if Roman Reigns won falls with the Superman Punch, the Spear, the Samoan Drop, the Drive-by etc. You'll see wrestlers beaten by much weaker moves here than you would in any other promotion.
- So I don't know everything about Lucha, and I also only tend to watch the last 3 matches on the 5-6 match cards with CMLL. I don't know much about the openers and some midcarders, and I only tend to watch Women's Title matches out of the Women wrestlers, so my nerd-notes on the opening matches are going to be pretty much non-existent
- Removing someone's mask is a disqualification. Also Tombstone Piledrivers aren't used all that often anymore, but they're considered illegal killshots in Mexico, if you see someone lift someone else into a tombstone position and then the referee push them over, to prevent it, that's why.

Faction and Family Notes for this show:

Spoiler:

- Negro Casas and Felino are brothers. Puma and Tiger are Felino's sons and Negro's nephews. Canelo Casas is the nephew of Negro and Felino, and the cousin of Puma and Tiger
- Negro Casas and Felino are members of La Pesta Negra.
- Pierroth is the father of Dragon Lee and Rush.
- Pierroth and Rush are members of Los Ingobernables (Rush was an OG member with Andrade Almas from NXT and the recently fired La Mascara. This is the same gimmick Naito is using in Japan)
- El Terrible and Rey Bucanero are members of TGR.
- Ultimo Guerrero is the leader of Los Guerreros Laguneros

If I were to make suggestions for new people, mostly just watch the last two matches. Bolded matches are matches that I watched.

2-out-of-3-Falls Trios Match

LOS INGOBERNABLES (RUSH Y  PIERROTH) (Listed as Tecnicos, but basically Rudos) Y ÚLTIMO GUERRERO (Rudo)
vs
NIEBLA ROJA® (Tecnico) Y TGR (EL TERRIBLE Y REY BUCANERO) (Rudos)


Nerd Notes: Niebla Roja recently turned tecnico and was kicked out of Los Guerreros Laguneros, which Ultimo Guerrero is the leader of. Rush teamed with Naito in last year's New Japan Tag League. Fun fact, Rey Bucanero and El Terrible are actually members of the Bullet Club, but that was way back in the Finn Balor days during the Fantasticamania tour.

Lightning Match (1 Fall, 10 Minute Time Limit)

DRAGON LEE (Tecnico)
vs
NEGRO CASAS (Rudo)


Nerd Notes: Dragon Lee is actually the second Dragon Lee, the first being his brother, the current Mistico. Negro Casas is the guy that Chris Jericho always mentions was his Mexican mentor in his books and podcasts. If you've ever seen the first Super J Cup, it's the same Negro Casas. This guy is ridiculously ageless.

2-out-of-3-Falls Trios Match

JOHNNY IDOL, STUKA Y DRONE (Tecnicos)
vs
LA DINASTIA CASAS (EL FELINO, PUMA Y TIGER) (Rudos)


2-out-of-3-Falls Trios Match (skipping through the show, it looks like this might have been changed to a 2/3 Falls Tag Match)

FUEGO, ESPIRÍTU MALIGNO Y PEGASSO
vs
ARES, ARKÁNGEL Y CANELO CASAS


2-out-of-3-Falls Women's Tag Team Match

ESTRELLITA Y SANELY
vs
DALYS Y AMAPOLA


2-out-of-3-Falls Tag Team Match

ASTURIANO Y VEGA
vs
JOKER Y EL PERVERSO
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Re: The Lucha Libre Thread

Post by Madzimum Thrill on Wed Jun 28, 2017 6:34 am

June 27th, 2017 CMLL Martes de Valores from Arena Mexico (Offical Link):

CMLL notes and primer

Spoiler:

- Super Viernes is the Friday Night show that's the equivalent of WWE Raw, the A show, out of Mexico City every week. It's on Clarosports.com (I think it's geoblocked if you're not in Mexico) but they've started putting replays up on their official youtube channel. Puebla on Mondays is their Smackdown-before-the-brand-split B show out of Puebla, it has an overall lesser feel but there are still some good matches on it from time to time. It's streamed live on youtube on their official channel. Martes de Valores on Tuesdays out of Mexico City would be like if the WWE put on a regular main event and then filled out the rest of the show with younger openers and midcarders and NTX wrestlers, it's to develop younger talent. Also streamed live on youtube on their official channel.
- Luchadors are listed as "Tecnicos" (babyfaces) or "Rudos" (heels). It's not uncommon to see matches between tecnicos or between rudos, and the Mexico City crowd seems to lean towards veterans regardless of affiliation more than adhering to tecnico/rudo lines.
- Every match in CMLL is 2-out-of-3-falls, excepting "Lightning" Matches, 1 fall singles matches with 10 minute time limits.
- "Lucha tag" rules are in effect, meaning you don't have to physically tag your partner in, once someone leaves the ring, their partner can enter and automatically become legal. These are sort of loosely enforced though, there's a lot of double-pins and double submissions that get counted even though they'd be technically illegal.
- Trios matches have "Captains" rules. One wrestler is designated the captain. If you beat the captain, you win the fall, otherwise you have to beat two wrestlers to win a fall. In regular tag matches, you have to pin both wrestlers on a team to score a fall. You don't really have to keep track of who the captain is or not, the ref will let you know if the fall is over by trying to raise the winners hand.
- CMLL is a very traditional promotion, you won't see hardcore matches, gimmick matches, or even steel chairs. Their storylines are mostly told in promos and in-ring like New Japan, you won't see a lot of backstage drama or intricately built storylines.
- Order of importance: Masks > Hair > Titles. Title matches are often used to build up to Hair and Mask matches instead of being the blow-off to a feud.
- There's about 8 million titles promoted by CMLL, of varying weight classes and history. The Trios titles are the most important, the importance of singles titles (even the Heavyweight Title) is based more on who's holding it than any kind of designated top title. I believe the Middleweight or Welterweight titles were traditionally the higher-prestige titles due to more Mexican wrestlers being smaller.
- Titles are only defended a handful of times per year, and you'll see wrestlers hold them for years at a time. Longest reign when this thread originally went up is Negro Casas and Shocker, having held the CMLL Tag Team Titles for 1106 days, just over 3 years. Angel de Oro won the Middleweight Title 90 days previous to this thread going up which would've been the shortest reign under normal circumstances, but the Heavyweight and Light Heavyweight Titles both had to be vacated due to firings/potentially criminal circumstances at the time.
- With so many falls, most wrestlers will win falls using a number of signature moves rather than just a single finisher. It would be as if Roman Reigns won falls with the Superman Punch, the Spear, the Samoan Drop, the Drive-by etc. You'll see wrestlers beaten by much weaker moves here than you would in any other promotion.
- So I don't know everything about Lucha, and I also only tend to watch the last 3 matches on the 5-6 match cards with CMLL. I don't know much about the openers and some midcarders, and I only tend to watch Women's Title matches out of the Women wrestlers, so my nerd-notes on the opening matches are going to be pretty much non-existent
- Removing someone's mask is a disqualification. Also Tombstone Piledrivers aren't used all that often anymore, but they're considered illegal killshots in Mexico, if you see someone lift someone else into a tombstone position and then the referee push them over, to prevent it, that's why. I believe it's also a disqualification to military press your opponent and toss them outside of the ring, but I may be wrong on that one.

Faction and Family Notes for this show:

Spoiler:

- Ultimo Guerrero is the father of Gran Guerrero
- Euforia is the father of Soberano
- Luciferno and Ephesto are brothers

If I were to make suggestions for new people, just watch the main event and maybe the semi-main. Linked matches are matches that I watched.

2/3 Falls Trios Match

MÍSTICO®, DIAMANTE AZUL Y NIEBLA ROJA® (Tecnicos)
vs
LOS GUERREROS LAGUNEROS (ÚLTIMO GUERRERO, EUFORIA® Y GRAN GUERRERO) (Rudos)



Nerd Notes: Mistico is not the original Mistico. Nielba Roja was recently kicked out of Los Guerreros Laguneros when he turned Tecnico


2/3 Falls Trios Match

SOBERANO, STUKA Y FUEGO (Tecnicos)
vs
LOS HIJOS DEL INFIERNO (MEPHISTO, LUCIFERNO Y EPHESTO) (Rudos)


Nerd Notes: Soberano was recently a co-winner of the Gran Alternativa Tag Team Tournament with Mistico. The Gran Alternativa teams up veteran stars with younger openers and midcarders, and is used to springboard the younger luchador winner up the card.

Lightning Match (1 Fall, 10 Minute Time Limit)

ESFINGE (Tecnico)
vs
DISTURBIOO (Rudo)


2/3 Falls Trios Match

JOHNNY IDOL, STIGMA Y ORO JR. (Tecnicos)
vs
VIRUS, EL SAGRADO® Y RAZIEL
(Rudos)


2/3 Falls Trios Match

MAGNUS, ROBIN Y ASTRAL
vs
ARTILLERO, HIJO DEL SIGNO Y ESPANTO JR.


2/3 Falls Tag Match

SANGRE IMPERIAL Y BENGALA
vs
TEMPLARIO Y EL CHOLO
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Re: The Lucha Libre Thread

Post by Madzimum Thrill on Thu Jun 29, 2017 8:15 am

June 28th 2017 Lucha Underground

Badass Cueto Cup match between Killshot (Shane Strickland) and Jeremiah Crane (Sami Callihan/Solomon Crowe)
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Re: The Lucha Libre Thread

Post by Madzimum Thrill on Sat Jul 01, 2017 12:12 pm

June 30th, 2017 CMLL Super Viernes from Arena Mexico (Offical Link):

CMLL notes and primer

Spoiler:

- Super Viernes is the Friday Night show that's the equivalent of WWE Raw, the A show, out of Mexico City every week. It's on Clarosports.com (I think it's geoblocked if you're not in Mexico) but they've started putting replays up on their official youtube channel. Puebla on Mondays is their Smackdown-before-the-brand-split B show out of Puebla, it has an overall lesser feel but there are still some good matches on it from time to time. It's streamed live on youtube on their official channel. Martes de Valores on Tuesdays out of Mexico City would be like if the WWE put on a regular main event and then filled out the rest of the show with younger openers and midcarders and NTX wrestlers, it's to develop younger talent. Also streamed live on youtube on their official channel.
- Luchadors are listed as "Tecnicos" (babyfaces) or "Rudos" (heels). It's not uncommon to see matches between tecnicos or between rudos, and the Mexico City crowd seems to lean towards veterans regardless of affiliation more than adhering to tecnico/rudo lines.
- Every match in CMLL is 2-out-of-3-falls, excepting "Lightning" Matches, 1 fall singles matches with 10 minute time limits.
- "Lucha tag" rules are in effect, meaning you don't have to physically tag your partner in, once someone leaves the ring, their partner can enter and automatically become legal. These are sort of loosely enforced though, there's a lot of double-pins and double submissions that get counted even though they'd be technically illegal.
- Trios matches have "Captains" rules. One wrestler is designated the captain. If you beat the captain, you win the fall, otherwise you have to beat two wrestlers to win a fall. In regular tag matches, you have to pin both wrestlers on a team to score a fall. You don't really have to keep track of who the captain is or not, the ref will let you know if the fall is over by trying to raise the winners hand.
- CMLL is a very traditional promotion, you won't see hardcore matches, gimmick matches, or even steel chairs. Their storylines are mostly told in promos and in-ring like New Japan, you won't see a lot of backstage drama or intricately built storylines.
- Order of importance: Masks > Hair > Titles. Title matches are often used to build up to Hair and Mask matches instead of being the blow-off to a feud.
- There's about 8 million titles promoted by CMLL, of varying weight classes and history. The Trios titles are the most important, the importance of singles titles (even the Heavyweight Title) is based more on who's holding it than any kind of designated top title. I believe the Middleweight or Welterweight titles were traditionally the higher-prestige titles due to more Mexican wrestlers being smaller.
- Titles are only defended a handful of times per year, and you'll see wrestlers hold them for years at a time. Longest reign when this thread originally went up is Negro Casas and Shocker, having held the CMLL Tag Team Titles for 1106 days, just over 3 years. Angel de Oro won the Middleweight Title 90 days previous to this thread going up which would've been the shortest reign under normal circumstances, but the Heavyweight and Light Heavyweight Titles both had to be vacated due to firings/potentially criminal circumstances at the time.
- With so many falls, most wrestlers will win falls using a number of signature moves rather than just a single finisher. It would be as if Roman Reigns won falls with the Superman Punch, the Spear, the Samoan Drop, the Drive-by etc. You'll see wrestlers beaten by much weaker moves here than you would in any other promotion.
- So I don't know everything about Lucha, and I also only tend to watch the last 3 matches on the 5-6 match cards with CMLL. I don't know much about the openers and some midcarders, and I only tend to watch Women's Title matches out of the Women wrestlers, so my nerd-notes on the opening matches are going to be pretty much non-existent
- Removing someone's mask is a disqualification. Also Tombstone Piledrivers aren't used all that often anymore, but they're considered illegal killshots in Mexico, if you see someone lift someone else into a tombstone position and then the referee push them over, to prevent it, that's why. I believe it's also a disqualification to military press your opponent and toss them outside of the ring, but I may be wrong on that one.

Faction and Family Notes for this show:

Spoiler:

- Volador Jr and El Valiente are partners in the Sky Team trio
- Volador Jr is the nephew of WCW's La Parka/LA Park
- Pierroth is the father of Dragon Lee and Rush
- Luciferno and Mephisto are members of Los Hijos del Infernieros together
- Shocker, El Terrible and Rey Bucanero are members of TGR together. I can't tell if Vangellys is a member or not, but he tags up with them often enough that he might as well be.
- Blue Panther is The Panther's father

If I were to make suggestions for new people, just watch the tournament matches. Linked matches are matches I watched (it's going to be all of them this time)

Universal Championship Tournament:

Unlike the WWE or WWC, the "Universal Championship" in CMLL's case is just an annual singles tournament held between all the of various belt-holders in the promotion.
This is the first of two brackets. They hold a quick battle royal to determine seeding (skip it), and then have a number of one fall singles matches, running through the entire bracket in one night to determine one of the finalists. They'll run the second bracket either next week or at a show during the week, and then the two finalists will eventually meet in a big-time two out of three falls final match to determine the 2017 Universal Champion.

VOLADOR JR.® (Took part in the New Japan BOSJ This Year)
DRAGON LEE (Took part in the New Japan BOSJ This Year)
ÁNGEL DE ORO®
EL VALIENTE®
NEGRO CASAS (Chris Jericho will mention him as his mentor once in awhile, also took part in the original Super J Cup)
SHOCKER (I think he's working hurt, you can probably skip his matches tbh)
LUCIFERNO
HECHICERO (a personal favourite of mine)

Opening Round

Spoiler:

El Valiente vs Shocker
Hechicero vs Volador Jr (maybe the best match of tournament)
Angel de Oro vs Negro Casas
Dragon Lee vs Luciferno (the other maybe the best match of the tournament contender)

Second Round

Spoiler:

Volador Jr vs Shocker
Dragon Lee vs Negro Casas

Bracket Final (Winner Qualifies For the Univeral Championship Final)

Spoiler:

Volador Jr vs Negro Casas (BTW, Negro Casas is 57 years old)

- 2/3 Falls Trios Match

LOS INGOBERNABLES (RUSH®, PIERROTH) (Listed as Tecnicos but act like Rudos) Y MISTERIOSO (Rudo)
vs
TGR (EL TERRIBLE, REY BUCANERO) Y VANGELLYS (Rudos)


-2/3 Falls Trios Match

ATLANTIS, BLUE PANTHER Y SOBERANO (Tecnicos)
vs
SAM ADONIS, MEPHISTO® Y DRAGÓN ROJO® (Rudos)


Nerd Note: Soberano recently was a co-winner of the Gran Alternativa Tag Team Tournament, and is getting a push up the card.

- 2/3 Falls Trios Match

TITÁN, REY COMETA Y GUERRERO MAYA (Tecnicos)
vs
RIPPER, PÓLVORA Y VIRUS (Rudos)


Nerd Notes:

- When Psicosis left AAA for WCW back in the day, the luchador who is now Ripper/Reaper became the new Psicosis.
- Virus is a huge fan-favourite for his intricate technical wrestling.
- Titan has made a few appearances in New Japan over the last few years, including in the Super J Cup.

-2/3 Falls Trios Match

THE PANTHER, DRONE Y PEGASSO (Tecnicos)
vs
THE NEW DYNAMITE BROTHERS (SANSÓN, CUATRERO Y FORASTERO) (Rudos)


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Re: The Lucha Libre Thread

Post by Madzimum Thrill on Sat Jul 01, 2017 6:50 pm

July 1st, 2017 AAA Worldwide

Spoiler:

- AAA just has the one show every weekend, Worldwide. They upload it each week on their youtube channel, but for whatever reason either their release schedule is spotty or a few episodes every month are geo-blocked here in Canada for some reason. The owner of AAA also owns Lucha Underground, and a good number of the Mexican cast of Lucha Underground came from AAA, and likewise a good number of the non-Mexican cast of Lucha Underground either did too or have since become AAA stars.
- Wrestler are listed as "Tecnicos" (babyfaces) or "Rudos" (heels). It's not uncommon to see matches between tecnicos or between rudos, and the Mexico City crowd seems to lean towards veterans regardless of affiliation more than adhering to tecnico/rudo lines.
- There is a lot of hardcore wrestling in AAA. It feels very ECW in that I can't always tell if matches are supposed to be hardcore matches or not until they happen.
- The referees in AAA are also faces or heels in their own right. El Hijo del Tirante seems to be the top heel referee, everyone else seems to be a face referee.
- Being a more non-traditional promotion, AAA also has storylines (that I can't follow because I don't speak spanish).
- "Lucha tag" rules are in effect, meaning you don't have to physically tag your partner in, once someone leaves the ring, their partner can enter and automatically become legal. These are sort of loosely enforced though, there's a lot of double-pins and double submissions that get counted even though they'd be technically illegal.
- Order of importance: Masks > Hair > Titles. Title matches are often used to build up to Hair and Mask matches instead of being the blow-off to a feud.
- AAA has more of a traditional western set-up for its titles. The Mega Championship is the top title, with a secondary Latin America title backing it up. There's also a Cruiserweight Title (all three of these titles are currently held by Johnny Mundo from Lucha Underground), a Tag Team Title, a Mixed (aka Intergender) Tag Team Title, of course a Trios title, a Women's Title and a Minis Title (a Mini isn't necessarily a wrestler with dwarfism or a little person, sometimes they're just really short wrestlers)
- You'll also see "Exoticos" in Lucha Libre, men who dress in drag or act effeminate and try to do things like kiss the guys they're wrestling in their matches. Somewhat like Goldust from the WWE used to be, though it's not necessarily homophobic heel antics and it's just as easy for these characters to be big-time beloved babyfaces.
- AAA is probably at the bottom of my list of all the promotions I watch, so I usually only watch the main event and upper midcard acts, usually meaning the only the main event and maybe the second of the three matches on each episode of Worldwide
- Removing someone's mask is a disqualification. Also Tombstone Piledrivers aren't used all that often anymore, but they're considered illegal killshots in Mexico, if you see someone lift someone else into a tombstone position and then the referee push them over, to prevent it, that's why.

Listed in order that the matches are shown in

Singles Match:
Mascara de Bronce (Tecnico) vs Shawn Hernandez (Rudo)


Nerd Note: Hernandez is the same Hernandez from Lucha Underground and TNA. There's some kind of storyline going on here, but I don't know what it is

AAA Tag Team Title Fatal Four Way Match:
Pagano and El Mesias (c) (Rudos) vs Cuervo and Scoria (Rudos) vs Bengala and Australian Suicide (Tecnicos) vs Aerostar and Drago (Tecnicos)


Nerd Note: Aerostar and Drago have appearaed on Lucha Underground as the same characters. El Mesias has appeared in TNA as Judas Mesias, and Lucha Underground as Mil Muertes. The referee is a heel referee.

Hair vs Hair Singles Match:
Pimpinella Escarlata vs Mamba


Nerd Note: Both are Exoticos. Pimpi has appeared on Lucha Underground. Heel ref again.
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Re: The Lucha Libre Thread

Post by Madzimum Thrill on Mon Jul 03, 2017 10:09 pm

July 3rd, 2017 CMLL Puebla (Offical Link):

CMLL notes and primer

Spoiler:

- Super Viernes is the Friday Night show that's the equivalent of WWE Raw, the A show, out of Mexico City every week. It's on Clarosports.com (I think it's geoblocked if you're not in Mexico) but they've started putting replays up on their official youtube channel. Puebla on Mondays is their Smackdown-before-the-brand-split B show out of Puebla, it has an overall lesser feel but there are still some good matches on it from time to time. It's streamed live on youtube on their official channel. Martes de Valores on Tuesdays out of Mexico City would be like if the WWE put on a regular main event and then filled out the rest of the show with younger openers and midcarders and NTX wrestlers, it's to develop younger talent. Also streamed live on youtube on their official channel.
- Luchadors are listed as "Tecnicos" (babyfaces) or "Rudos" (heels). It's not uncommon to see matches between tecnicos or between rudos, and the Mexico City crowd seems to lean towards veterans regardless of affiliation more than adhering to tecnico/rudo lines.
- Every match in CMLL is 2-out-of-3-falls, excepting "Lightning" Matches, 1 fall singles matches with 10 minute time limits.
- "Lucha tag" rules are in effect, meaning you don't have to physically tag your partner in, once someone leaves the ring, their partner can enter and automatically become legal. These are sort of loosely enforced though, there's a lot of double-pins and double submissions that get counted even though they'd be technically illegal.
- Trios matches have "Captains" rules. One wrestler is designated the captain. If you beat the captain, you win the fall, otherwise you have to beat two wrestlers to win a fall. In regular tag matches, you have to pin both wrestlers on a team to score a fall. You don't really have to keep track of who the captain is or not, the ref will let you know if the fall is over by trying to raise the winners hand.
- CMLL is a very traditional promotion, you won't see hardcore matches, gimmick matches, or even steel chairs. Their storylines are mostly told in promos and in-ring like New Japan, you won't see a lot of backstage drama or intricately built storylines.
- Order of importance: Masks > Hair > Titles. Title matches are often used to build up to Hair and Mask matches instead of being the blow-off to a feud.
- There's about 8 million titles promoted by CMLL, of varying weight classes and history. The Trios titles are the most important, the importance of singles titles (even the Heavyweight Title) is based more on who's holding it than any kind of designated top title. I believe the Middleweight or Welterweight titles were traditionally the higher-prestige titles due to more Mexican wrestlers being smaller.
- Titles are only defended a handful of times per year, and you'll see wrestlers hold them for years at a time. Longest reign when this thread originally went up is Negro Casas and Shocker, having held the CMLL Tag Team Titles for 1106 days, just over 3 years. Angel de Oro won the Middleweight Title 90 days previous to this thread going up which would've been the shortest reign under normal circumstances, but the Heavyweight and Light Heavyweight Titles both had to be vacated due to firings/potentially criminal circumstances at the time.
- With so many falls, most wrestlers will win falls using a number of signature moves rather than just a single finisher. It would be as if Roman Reigns won falls with the Superman Punch, the Spear, the Samoan Drop, the Drive-by etc. You'll see wrestlers beaten by much weaker moves here than you would in any other promotion.
- So I don't know everything about Lucha, and I also only tend to watch the last 3 matches on the 5-6 match cards with CMLL. I don't know much about the openers and some midcarders, and I only tend to watch Women's Title matches out of the Women wrestlers, so my nerd-notes on the opening matches are going to be pretty much non-existent
- Removing someone's mask is a disqualification. Also Tombstone Piledrivers aren't used all that often anymore, but they're considered illegal killshots in Mexico, if you see someone lift someone else into a tombstone position and then the referee push them over, to prevent it, that's why. I believe it's also a disqualification to military press your opponent and toss them outside of the ring, but I may be wrong on that one.

Faction, Family and Gimmick Notes for this show:

Spoiler:

- Pierroth is Rush's father
- Volador Jr is the nephew of WCW's La Parka
- Volador Jr and El Valiente are two-thirds of the CMLL Trios Champion team "Sky Team" with Mistico II
- Ripper/Reaper was the second Psicosis, after the original Psicosis left for WCW.

If I were to make suggestions for new people, watch the main event and maybe the hair match. I only watched the main event.

2/3 Falls Trios Match

LOS INGOBERNABLES (RUSH Y PIERROTH) (Tecnicos but act like Rudos) Y ÚLTIMO GUERRERO (Rudo)
vs
TGR (SHOCKER, EL TERRIBLE Y REY BUCANERO) (Rudos)

Nerd Note: A new "La Sombra" (the original name for Andrade Almas in NXT, the first La Sombra and an original Los Ingobernable) has been showing up and aiding the Los Ingobernables

2/3 Falls Trios Match

VOLADOR JR, DIAMANTE AZUL Y EL VALIENTE® (Tecnicos)
vs
KRÁNEO, RIPPER Y MEPHISTO® (Rudos)

Hair vs Hair Match 2/3 Falls

ESPIRÍTU MALIGNO
vs
ARES

2/3 Falls Trios Match

TITÁN, SOBERANO Y STIGMA (Tecnicos)
vs
MISTERIOSO, SAGRADO Y DISTURBIO (Rudos)

Lightning Match (1 Fall, 10 Minute Time Limit): Women's

MARCELA
vs
DALYS

2/3 Falls Trios Match

ASTURIANO, BLACK TIGER Y MEYER
vs
FUERZA CHICANA, EL MALAYO Y KING JAGUAR
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Re: The Lucha Libre Thread

Post by Madzimum Thrill on Tue Jul 04, 2017 10:31 pm

July 4th, 2017 CMLL Martes de Neuvos Valores from Arena Mexico (Offical Link):

CMLL notes and primer

Spoiler:

- Super Viernes is the Friday Night show that's the equivalent of WWE Raw, the A show, out of Mexico City every week. It's on Clarosports.com (I think it's geoblocked if you're not in Mexico) but they've started putting replays up on their official youtube channel. Puebla on Mondays is their Smackdown-before-the-brand-split B show out of Puebla, it has an overall lesser feel but there are still some good matches on it from time to time. It's streamed live on youtube on their official channel. Martes de Valores on Tuesdays out of Mexico City would be like if the WWE put on a regular main event and then filled out the rest of the show with younger openers and midcarders and NTX wrestlers, it's to develop younger talent. Also streamed live on youtube on their official channel.
- Luchadors are listed as "Tecnicos" (babyfaces) or "Rudos" (heels). It's not uncommon to see matches between tecnicos or between rudos, and the Mexico City crowd seems to lean towards veterans regardless of affiliation more than adhering to tecnico/rudo lines.
- Every match in CMLL is 2-out-of-3-falls, excepting "Lightning" Matches, 1 fall singles matches with 10 minute time limits.
- "Lucha tag" rules are in effect, meaning you don't have to physically tag your partner in, once someone leaves the ring, their partner can enter and automatically become legal. These are sort of loosely enforced though, there's a lot of double-pins and double submissions that get counted even though they'd be technically illegal.
- Trios matches have "Captains" rules. One wrestler is designated the captain. If you beat the captain, you win the fall, otherwise you have to beat two wrestlers to win a fall. In regular tag matches, you have to pin both wrestlers on a team to score a fall. You don't really have to keep track of who the captain is or not, the ref will let you know if the fall is over by trying to raise the winners hand.
- CMLL is a very traditional promotion, you won't see hardcore matches, gimmick matches, or even steel chairs. Their storylines are mostly told in promos and in-ring like New Japan, you won't see a lot of backstage drama or intricately built storylines.
- Order of importance: Masks > Hair > Titles. Title matches are often used to build up to Hair and Mask matches instead of being the blow-off to a feud.
- There's about 8 million titles promoted by CMLL, of varying weight classes and history. The Trios titles are the most important, the importance of singles titles (even the Heavyweight Title) is based more on who's holding it than any kind of designated top title. I believe the Middleweight or Welterweight titles were traditionally the higher-prestige titles due to more Mexican wrestlers being smaller.
- Titles are only defended a handful of times per year, and you'll see wrestlers hold them for years at a time. Longest reign when this thread originally went up is Negro Casas and Shocker, having held the CMLL Tag Team Titles for 1106 days, just over 3 years. Angel de Oro won the Middleweight Title 90 days previous to this thread going up which would've been the shortest reign under normal circumstances, but the Heavyweight and Light Heavyweight Titles both had to be vacated due to firings/potentially criminal circumstances at the time.
- With so many falls, most wrestlers will win falls using a number of signature moves rather than just a single finisher. It would be as if Roman Reigns won falls with the Superman Punch, the Spear, the Samoan Drop, the Drive-by etc. You'll see wrestlers beaten by much weaker moves here than you would in any other promotion.
- So I don't know everything about Lucha, and I also only tend to watch the last 3 matches on the 5-6 match cards with CMLL. I don't know much about the openers and some midcarders, and I only tend to watch Women's Title matches out of the Women wrestlers, so my nerd-notes on the opening matches are going to be pretty much non-existent
- Removing someone's mask is a disqualification. Also Tombstone Piledrivers aren't used all that often anymore, but they're considered illegal killshots in Mexico, if you see someone lift someone else into a tombstone position and then the referee push them over, to prevent it, that's why. I believe it's also a disqualification to military press your opponent and toss them outside of the ring, but I may be wrong on that one.

Probably watch the last two matches. I'm becoming a big fan of the New Dynamite Brothers

Match 6: 2/3 Falls

VOLADOR JR.®, MARCO CORLEONE Y DIAMANTE AZUL (Tecnicos)
vs
NEGRO CASAS Y LOS GUERREROS LAGUNEROS (EUFORIA® Y GRAN GUERRERO) (Rudos)

Nerd Notes:
- Volador Jr is the nephew of WCW's La Parka, he's made appearances for New Japan in the BOSJ and at the G1 Special
- Negro Casas is the Uncle of Puma, and is Chris Jericho's mexican mentor
- Marco Corleone is Mark Jindrak from WCW/WWE

Match 5: 2/3 Falls

LA DINASTIA PANTHER (BLUE PANTHER JR Y THE PANTHER) Y ÁNGEL DE ORO® (Tecnicos)
vs
THE NEW DYNAMITE BROTHERS (SANSÓN, CUATRERO Y FORASTERO) (Rudos)

Nerd Notes:
- Blue Panther Jr and the Panther are brothers
- The New Dynamite Brothers are apparently brothers or cousins of some kind from the Reyes wrestling family, but I'm unsure of the relation. Universo 2000 Jr might also be related to them. It's tricky because a few wrestlers using "Jr" gimmicks from this family line are apparently unrelated to the original three brothers of the Reyes family (Cien Caras, Mascara Ano 2000 and Universo 2000)

Match 4: Lightning Match (1 Fall, 10 Minute Time Limit)

DRONE (Tecnico)
vs
PUMA (Rudo)

Nerd Notes:
- Puma is the nephew of Negro Casas

Match 3: 2/3 Falls Match

JOHNNY IDOL, STIGMA Y FUEGO (Tecnicos)
vs
LOS CANCERBEROS DEL INFIERNO (RAZIEL Y CANCERBERO) Y UNIVERSO 2000 JR. (Rudos)

Nerd Notes:
- Unverso 2000 Jr might be some kind of relation to the New Dynamite Brothers

Match 2: 2/3 Falls Match

FLYER, PRÍNCIPE DIAMANTE Y SENSEI
vs
MISTERIOSO JR., METÁLICO Y SANGRE AZTECA

Match 1: 2/3 Falls Match

STUKITA Y FANTASY
vs
MERCURIO Y PEQUEÑO NITRO
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Re: The Lucha Libre Thread

Post by Madzimum Thrill on Sat Jul 08, 2017 12:13 pm

July 7th, 2017 CMLL Super Viernes from Arena Mexico (Offical Link):

CMLL notes and primer

Spoiler:

- Super Viernes is the Friday Night show that's the equivalent of WWE Raw, the A show, out of Mexico City every week. It's on Clarosports.com (I think it's geoblocked if you're not in Mexico) but they've started putting replays up on their official youtube channel. Puebla on Mondays is their Smackdown-before-the-brand-split B show out of Puebla, it has an overall lesser feel but there are still some good matches on it from time to time. It's streamed live on youtube on their official channel. Martes de Valores on Tuesdays out of Mexico City would be like if the WWE put on a regular main event and then filled out the rest of the show with younger openers and midcarders and NTX wrestlers, it's to develop younger talent. Also streamed live on youtube on their official channel.
- Luchadors are listed as "Tecnicos" (babyfaces) or "Rudos" (heels). It's not uncommon to see matches between tecnicos or between rudos, and the Mexico City crowd seems to lean towards veterans regardless of affiliation more than adhering to tecnico/rudo lines.
- Every match in CMLL is 2-out-of-3-falls, excepting "Lightning" Matches, 1 fall singles matches with 10 minute time limits.
- "Lucha tag" rules are in effect, meaning you don't have to physically tag your partner in, once someone leaves the ring, their partner can enter and automatically become legal. These are sort of loosely enforced though, there's a lot of double-pins and double submissions that get counted even though they'd be technically illegal.
- Trios matches have "Captains" rules. One wrestler is designated the captain. If you beat the captain, you win the fall, otherwise you have to beat two wrestlers to win a fall. In regular tag matches, you have to pin both wrestlers on a team to score a fall. You don't really have to keep track of who the captain is or not, the ref will let you know if the fall is over by trying to raise the winners hand.
- CMLL is a very traditional promotion, you won't see hardcore matches, gimmick matches, or even steel chairs. Their storylines are mostly told in promos and in-ring like New Japan, you won't see a lot of backstage drama or intricately built storylines.
- Order of importance: Masks > Hair > Titles. Title matches are often used to build up to Hair and Mask matches instead of being the blow-off to a feud.
- There's about 8 million titles promoted by CMLL, of varying weight classes and history. The Trios titles are the most important, the importance of singles titles (even the Heavyweight Title) is based more on who's holding it than any kind of designated top title. I believe the Middleweight or Welterweight titles were traditionally the higher-prestige titles due to more Mexican wrestlers being smaller.
- Titles are only defended a handful of times per year, and you'll see wrestlers hold them for years at a time. Longest reign when this thread originally went up is Negro Casas and Shocker, having held the CMLL Tag Team Titles for 1106 days, just over 3 years. Angel de Oro won the Middleweight Title 90 days previous to this thread going up which would've been the shortest reign under normal circumstances, but the Heavyweight and Light Heavyweight Titles both had to be vacated due to firings/potentially criminal circumstances at the time.
- With so many falls, most wrestlers will win falls using a number of signature moves rather than just a single finisher. It would be as if Roman Reigns won falls with the Superman Punch, the Spear, the Samoan Drop, the Drive-by etc. You'll see wrestlers beaten by much weaker moves here than you would in any other promotion.
- So I don't know everything about Lucha, and I also only tend to watch the last 3 matches on the 5-6 match cards with CMLL. I don't know much about the openers and some midcarders, and I only tend to watch Women's Title matches out of the Women wrestlers, so my nerd-notes on the opening matches are going to be pretty much non-existent
- Removing someone's mask is a disqualification. Also Tombstone Piledrivers aren't used all that often anymore, but they're considered illegal killshots in Mexico, if you see someone lift someone else into a tombstone position and then the referee push them over, to prevent it, that's why. I believe it's also a disqualification to military press your opponent and toss them outside of the ring, but I may be wrong on that one.

If you're new, just watch the Universal Title Tournament Matches and maybe one of the trios


Universal Championship Tournament:

Not like the WWE or WWC Univeral Championships, a physical belt, but more like the WWE King of the Ring if it was held between all the different champions in the WWE

How CMLL Tournaments work is that they have a short battle royal to determine seeding (I always skip them), and then they hold an entire bracket over the course of a show. Each match is one-fall, the winners advance, the losers are out. The last wrestler remaining qualifies for the Universal Championship final against last week's bracket winner, with that match taking place probably next week.

Second-Bracket Participats:

MÍSTICO®
ÚLTIMO GUERRERO
DIAMANTE AZUL
MEPHISTO®
MARCO CORLEONE
NIEBLA ROJA®
SOBERANO JR.
EPHESTO

Nerd Notes:

- Marco Corleone is Mark Jindrak from WCW and the WWF
- Mistico is the son of Pierroth and the brother of Rush from the Los Ingobernables (though he himself is not an Ingobernable)
- Mistico is the second man to wear the Mistico gimmick. He was originally the first Dragon Lee (a gimmick now used by his brother) until the original Mistico left for WWE to become the first Sin Cara, and then CMLL repackaged him as the new Mistico.
- Mephisto and Ephesto are stablemates in the Los Hijos del Infierno trio
- Soberano was recently a co-winner of the Gran Alternativa Tag Team Tournament with Mistico.

First Round Matches (1 Fall)

Spoiler:

Diamante Azul v Ephesto
Marco Corleone vs Ultimo Guerrero
Mistico vs Mephisto
Soberano vs Niebla Roja

Nerd Note: Soberano, though not a member himself, is the son of Los Guerreros Laguneros member Euforia, who recently kicked Niebla Roja out of their group.

Second Round Matches (1 Fall)

Spoiler:

Diamante Azul vs Ultimo Guerrero
Mistico vs Niebla Roja

Bracket Finals (Winner goes on to the Universal Championship Final match, probably on the next show)

Spoiler:

Ultimo Guerrero vs Niebla Roja

Nerd Note: As previously mentioned, Niebla Roja was kicked out of Los Guerreros Laguneros, which Ultimo Guerrero is the leader of

2/3 Falls Trios Match

LOS INGOBERNABLES (RUSH® Y PIERROTH) Y RIPPER
vs
TGR (SHOCKER Y EL TERRIBLE) Y VANGELLYS

Nerd Notes:

- Pierroth and Vangellys are gonna have a Hair vs Hair match in the near future, probably at the Anniversario event (CMLL's anniversary show that serves as their Wrestlemania)
- Vangellys isn't a member of TGR as far as I know, but he teams with them so often that he should probably be considered one
- Pierroth is the father of Rush and Mistico

2/3 Falls Trios Match

BLUE PANTHER, REY COMETA Y PEGASSO
vs
SAM ADONIS, MISTERIOSO Y VIRUS


2/3 Falls Women's Trios Match

SILUETA, PRINCESA SUGEHIT Y JAROCHITA
vs
DALYS, ZEUXIS Y SEDUCTORA


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Re: The Lucha Libre Thread

Post by Madzimum Thrill on Mon Jul 10, 2017 9:16 pm

July 10th, 2017 CMLL Puebla (Offical Link):

CMLL notes and primer

Spoiler:

- Super Viernes is the Friday Night show that's the equivalent of WWE Raw, the A show, out of Mexico City every week. It's on Clarosports.com (I think it's geoblocked if you're not in Mexico) but they've started putting replays up on their official youtube channel. Puebla on Mondays is their Smackdown-before-the-brand-split B show out of Puebla, it has an overall lesser feel but there are still some good matches on it from time to time. It's streamed live on youtube on their official channel. Martes de Valores on Tuesdays out of Mexico City would be like if the WWE put on a regular main event and then filled out the rest of the show with younger openers and midcarders and NTX wrestlers, it's to develop younger talent. Also streamed live on youtube on their official channel.
- Luchadors are listed as "Tecnicos" (babyfaces) or "Rudos" (heels). It's not uncommon to see matches between tecnicos or between rudos, and the Mexico City crowd seems to lean towards veterans regardless of affiliation more than adhering to tecnico/rudo lines.
- Every match in CMLL is 2-out-of-3-falls, excepting "Lightning" Matches, 1 fall singles matches with 10 minute time limits.
- "Lucha tag" rules are in effect, meaning you don't have to physically tag your partner in, once someone leaves the ring, their partner can enter and automatically become legal. These are sort of loosely enforced though, there's a lot of double-pins and double submissions that get counted even though they'd be technically illegal.
- Trios matches have "Captains" rules. One wrestler is designated the captain. If you beat the captain, you win the fall, otherwise you have to beat two wrestlers to win a fall. In regular tag matches, you have to pin both wrestlers on a team to score a fall. You don't really have to keep track of who the captain is or not, the ref will let you know if the fall is over by trying to raise the winners hand.
- CMLL is a very traditional promotion, you won't see hardcore matches, gimmick matches, or even steel chairs. Their storylines are mostly told in promos and in-ring like New Japan, you won't see a lot of backstage drama or intricately built storylines.
- Order of importance: Masks > Hair > Titles. Title matches are often used to build up to Hair and Mask matches instead of being the blow-off to a feud.
- There's about 8 million titles promoted by CMLL, of varying weight classes and history. The Trios titles are the most important, the importance of singles titles (even the Heavyweight Title) is based more on who's holding it than any kind of designated top title. I believe the Middleweight or Welterweight titles were traditionally the higher-prestige titles due to more Mexican wrestlers being smaller.
- Titles are only defended a handful of times per year, and you'll see wrestlers hold them for years at a time. Longest reign when this thread originally went up is Negro Casas and Shocker, having held the CMLL Tag Team Titles for 1106 days, just over 3 years. Angel de Oro won the Middleweight Title 90 days previous to this thread going up which would've been the shortest reign under normal circumstances, but the Heavyweight and Light Heavyweight Titles both had to be vacated due to firings/potentially criminal circumstances at the time.
- With so many falls, most wrestlers will win falls using a number of signature moves rather than just a single finisher. It would be as if Roman Reigns won falls with the Superman Punch, the Spear, the Samoan Drop, the Drive-by etc. You'll see wrestlers beaten by much weaker moves here than you would in any other promotion.
- So I don't know everything about Lucha, and I also only tend to watch the last 3 matches on the 5-6 match cards with CMLL. I don't know much about the openers and some midcarders, and I only tend to watch Women's Title matches out of the Women wrestlers, so my nerd-notes on the opening matches are going to be pretty much non-existent
- Removing someone's mask is a disqualification. Also Tombstone Piledrivers aren't used all that often anymore, but they're considered illegal killshots in Mexico, if you see someone lift someone else into a tombstone position and then the referee push them over, to prevent it, that's why. I believe it's also a disqualification to military press your opponent and toss them outside of the ring, but I may be wrong on that one.

I'm watching everything but the first match. From looking at the card, the Women's Title match, Niebla Roja/UG and maybe the maybe the main event are worth watching

2/3 Falls Mixed Tecnico/Rudo Trios Match

Los Ingobernables (RUSH Y PIERROTH) Y VOLADOR JR.®
vs
CARÍSTICO, RIPPER Y KRÁNEO

Nerd Notes:

- Pierroth is the father of Rush and Dragon Lee
- Volador Jr is the nephew of WCW's La Parka
- Caristico is the original Mistico, the first Sin Cara from WWE, and Myztizez from AAA
- When Psicosis left for WCW, Ripper/Reaper was the man who replaced him as Psicosis, which is the reason why his mask looks similar

2/3 Falls Singles Match

NIEBLA ROJA®
vs
ÚLTIMO GUERRERO

Nerd Note:
- Niebla Roja turned tecnico and was kicked out of Los Guerreros Laguneros recently (Euforia is a member), which is the faction that Ultimo Guerrero is the leader of. We're probably building for a Mask vs Hair match in the future

2/3 Falls Trios match

DRAGON LEE, EL VALIENTE® Y TITÁN
vs
La Pesta Negra (CAVERNARIO Y EL FELINO) Y EUFORIA

Nerd Notes:

- Dragon Lee is the brother of Rush and the son of Pierroth
- Euforia is a member of Los Guerreros Laguneros with Ultimo Guerrero

CMLL Women's Championship 2/3 Falls Match

DALYS
(CAMPEONA)
vs
(RETADORA)
MARCELA

2/3 Falls Trios Match

La Familia Panther (BLUE PANTHER JR Y The Panther) Y LESTAT Y
vs
MISTERIOSO, SAGRADO Y ARES

Nerd Note:

- Blue Panther Jr and The Panther are brothers

2/3 Falls Trios Match

ASTURIANO, ARKALIS Y PARIS
vs
Los Cancerberos del Infiernos (RAZIEL Y CANCERBERO) Y EL MALAYO
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Re: The Lucha Libre Thread

Post by Madzimum Thrill on Mon Jul 10, 2017 11:31 pm

July 8th, 2017 AAA Worldwide is not available for me for whatever reason. Check AAA's youtube page, or the youtube page of thecubsfan (July 2017 Week 2) to find the matches

Spoiler:

- AAA just has the one show every weekend, Worldwide. They upload it each week on their youtube channel, but for whatever reason either their release schedule is spotty or a few episodes every month are geo-blocked here in Canada for some reason. The owner of AAA also owns Lucha Underground, and a good number of the Mexican cast of Lucha Underground came from AAA, and likewise a good number of the non-Mexican cast of Lucha Underground either did too or have since become AAA stars.
- Wrestler are listed as "Tecnicos" (babyfaces) or "Rudos" (heels). It's not uncommon to see matches between tecnicos or between rudos, and the Mexico City crowd seems to lean towards veterans regardless of affiliation more than adhering to tecnico/rudo lines.
- There is a lot of hardcore wrestling in AAA. It feels very ECW in that I can't always tell if matches are supposed to be hardcore matches or not until they happen.
- The referees in AAA are also faces or heels in their own right. El Hijo del Tirante seems to be the top heel referee, everyone else seems to be a face referee.
- Being a more non-traditional promotion, AAA also has storylines (that I can't follow because I don't speak spanish).
- "Lucha tag" rules are in effect, meaning you don't have to physically tag your partner in, once someone leaves the ring, their partner can enter and automatically become legal. These are sort of loosely enforced though, there's a lot of double-pins and double submissions that get counted even though they'd be technically illegal.
- Order of importance: Masks > Hair > Titles. Title matches are often used to build up to Hair and Mask matches instead of being the blow-off to a feud.
- AAA has more of a traditional western set-up for its titles. The Mega Championship is the top title, with a secondary Latin America title backing it up. There's also a Cruiserweight Title (all three of these titles are currently held by Johnny Mundo from Lucha Underground), a Tag Team Title, a Mixed (aka Intergender) Tag Team Title, of course a Trios title, a Women's Title and a Minis Title (a Mini isn't necessarily a wrestler with dwarfism or a little person, sometimes they're just really short wrestlers)
- You'll also see "Exoticos" in Lucha Libre, men who dress in drag or act effeminate and try to do things like kiss the guys they're wrestling in their matches. Somewhat like Goldust from the WWE used to be, though it's not necessarily homophobic heel antics and it's just as easy for these characters to be big-time beloved babyfaces.
- AAA is probably at the bottom of my list of all the promotions I watch, so I usually only watch the main event and upper midcard acts, usually meaning the only the main event and maybe the second of the three matches on each episode of Worldwide
- Removing someone's mask is a disqualification. Also Tombstone Piledrivers aren't used all that often anymore, but they're considered illegal killshots in Mexico, if you see someone lift someone else into a tombstone position and then the referee push them over, to prevent it, that's why.

Listed in order that the matches are shown in. Definitely watch the Triple Threat Tag Mask match

Trios Match, 1 Fall

OGT (Averno, Chessman and Super Fly) vs Argenis, La Parka and Lanzeloth


Nerd Notes:

- Super Fly and Argenis are from Lucha Underground
- Argenis is the brother of Caristico aka the original Mistico
- This La Parka is not the La Parka from WCW
- Heel ref in charge of this match

Triple Threat Cage Match, Escape Rules

El Hijo Del Fantasma vs Kevin Kross vs El Texano Jr[/b]

Nerd Notes:

- Fantasma is the same Fantasma from Impact, and King Cuerno from Lucha Underground
- Texano Jr is also from Lucha Underground


Triple Threat Tag Team Mask vs Mask Match (Losing Team Must Unmask):

Psycho Clown and Dr Wagner Jr vs Los Totalmente Traidores (Monsther Clown and Murder Clown) vs Nuevo Poder del Notre (Carta Brava Jr and Soul Rocker)

Nerd Notes:

- Dr Wagner Jr and Psycho Clown are set to main-event Triplemania in a Mask vs Mask match... I guess the match is off if they lose this match
- Monsther Clown and Murder Clown used to part of the Los Psycho Circus babyface faction with Psycho Clown until turning on him during Psycho Clown's feud with Pagano
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Re: The Lucha Libre Thread

Post by Madzimum Thrill on Tue Jul 11, 2017 8:00 pm

Ehhh, I'm not a super-huge fan of the format I've been using, some I'm gonna change it up and just link matches that I thought were good or were important, and post the primers on the top of each page

July 11th Martes De Nuevos Valores from Arena Mexico

Lighting Match (1 Fall, 10 Minute Time Limit)

El Valiente vs Gran Guerrero

- El Valiente ("The Valiant") is a tecnico. He looks like a power wrestler but has shocking agility for a man of his build. He's 1/3rd of the CMLL World Trios Champion "Sky Team" with Volador Jr and Mistico II.
- Gran Guerrero ("Grand Warrior") is a young power rudo, the son of Ultimo Guerrero ("Ultimate Warrior", no, not that one) and a member of the Los Guerreros Laguneros ("Lagoon Warriors", Laguneros being an extinct Aztec people from Northern Mexico).
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Re: The Lucha Libre Thread

Post by Madzimum Thrill on Fri Jul 14, 2017 11:07 pm

This week's Super Viernes was pretty eventful

2/3 Falls Trios Match

Blue Panther, Diamante Azul and Soberano Jr

vs

Sam Adonis, Negro Casas and Dragon Rojo Jr


Nerd Notes:

- Soberano Jr recently won the Gran Alternativa tag team tournament with Mistico II, indicating he'll be featured higher up the card going forward.

2/3 Falls Hair vs Hair Match

Vangellys

vs

Pierroth


- Pierroth is a member of Los Ingobernables, and the father of Dragon Lee and Mistico II
- Vangellys is a decent midcard wrestler who usually tags with TGR.
- Hair matches are arguably more important to wrestlers than title matches, though not as important as mask matches

2/3 Falls Trios Match

Caristico, Mistico II and Dragon Lee

vs

Los Hijos del Infierno (Mephisto, Ephesto and Luciferno)


Nerd Notes:

- Caristico is the original Mistico, and the first Sin Cara from WWE.
- Mistico II is the original Dragon Lee, repackaged as the new Mistico when the first one went to WWE to become Sin Cara. His brother took up the mantle of Dragon Lee. Their father is Pierroth.
- Caristico and Mistico basically share the exact same gimmick, Caristico is the bigger wrestler of the two.
- Ephesto and Luciferno are brothers

Universal Championship Tournament Final: (All of the Champions in CMLL fight in a single-elimination tournament to prove who is the top champion)

Highly recommend this one, these two never have a bad match

Spoiler:

Volador Jr

vs

Ultimo Guerrero


Nerd Notes:

- Volador Jr is the nephew of the original La Parka. He's one of the top tecnico stars of CMLL.
- Ultimo Guerrero is a legend, sort of like if John Cena had spent his career as a heel instead of a face.

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Re: The Lucha Libre Thread

Post by Madzimum Thrill on Mon Jul 17, 2017 11:14 pm

Puebla:

2/3 Falls: NWA Historic Middleweight Title

Ultimo Guerrero (c) vs Niebla Roja

Nerd Notes:

- Looks like the feud between Niebla Roja and Ultimo Guerrero after Ultimo kicked Niebla out of the Los Guerreros Laguneros comes to a head here.
- The NWA Historic Middleweight Title is a secondary Middleweight Title. CMLL used to be in possession of the real NWA World Middleweight Title (as well as most of the other lower-weight NWA World Titles), but an official NWA offshoot promotion took them back in 2010 (that promotion is now defunct), leading CMLL to introduce their own "Historic" version of the title. Ultimo Guerrero has held the title for nearly 2 years.
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Re: The Lucha Libre Thread

Post by Madzimum Thrill on Fri Jul 21, 2017 11:46 pm

Super Viernes Link

First match is a 2/3 Falls Tag Match

Blue Panther Jr and The Panther vs Tiger and Puma

- Blue Panther Jr and The Panther are sons of wrestling legend Blue Panther. The Panther looks like he's gonna be a star, my theory is that Blue Panther gave the "Jr" to the weaker brother because he won't be able to get over as good without it
- Tiger and Puma are the sons of Felino and members of the Casas Wrestling Family. Puma feels like he'll be a star.

Around the 01:08:00 mark, a women's Torneo Cibernetico for some kind of Cup starts. It's a long-ass match, but it has most of the CMLL luchadoras involved, so if you want to scope out the women's division of CMLL, this a good way to do it.

A Torneo Cibernetico is sort of a mash-up of the Survivor Series, a Royal Rumble, and a tournament.

- There are two large teams
- The match starts with a skippable battle royal to determine a "batting order."
- Once the order is determined, the match proceeds as a lucha tag match. You eliminate members of the other team the regular way (pinfall, submission, countout, DQ). However, wrestlers can't tag any of their partners they want, who they can tag is determined by who's next in line in the batting order.
- The winner of the match is the last person left standing. If one team gets eliminated early, then the wrestlers on the remaining team have to fight each other under the same rules until there's only one left.
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